James Rubin, who served as US Assistant Secretary of State during the Kosovo war, is testifying in the case of former President Hashim Thaçi and others at the Special Court in The Hague.
He is among the witnesses called by the defense.
Rubin denies: Thaçi did not reject Rambouillet because of the disarmament of the KLA
Witness James Rubin denied that one of the reasons why Hashim Thaçi did not sign the Rambouillet agreement in the first round was that he did not want the KLA to disarm.
"No. As far as I know, no," said James Rubin, reports "Oath for Justice."
During the talks in Rambouillet, Rubin said that the Albanian side sought assurances from NATO that it would use its force if Serbian forces continued their oppression.
"They wanted assurances from NATO that it would continue with the process, that is, with its promise to use its force if the Serbs continued their oppression, if the Serbs did not do this, if the Serbian government did not sign, then they wanted assurances that if everyone else signed, then NATO would show force," he said.
Rubin said that Albanians and their representatives in Rambouillet were seeking assurances from internationals that they would keep their promise.
"They were looking for assurance that we would give it to them and that we would keep our promise," said James Rubin.
Rubin indicated that Hashim Thaçi also sought Adem Demaçi's approval for the Rambouillet agreement and that this showed that he was not his subordinate, but Thaçi's superior.
Rubin showed how much he understood, Demaçi had opposed the signing of the Rambouillet agreement.
James Rubin: Christopher Hill was biased and against the KLA
James Rubin
Former US Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin said that diplomat Christopher Hill was biased and against the KLA. He said that he was constantly trying to damage his image and that of Secretary Madeleine Albright.
"Christopher Hill was biased and I had noticed this. He was not impartial and was in favor of the LDK, against the KLA. I was impartial. Chris Hill was very recklessly biased. He tried to damage my image and to damage Secretary Albright by saying that she had influenced the head of the KLA delegation in Rambouillet and in fact we only had one objective that we wanted to achieve there," he said.
Rubin said that Christopher Hill was the person who damaged the talks there and was the reason they did not get a "yes" from the KLA for the agreement, reports "Oath for Justice".
This statement by James Rubin came after prosecutor James Pace read a statement by Hill, where the latter had said that Rubin even instructed Thaçi on what suit and tie to wear.
He called these claims "myths" and not truths that have emerged from Hill.
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Rubin on the Serbian Government: They have always tried to blame the KLA for their crimes
During his testimony in The Hague, James Rubin, who is testifying with the authorization of the US Government, said that Serbian forces tried to cover up their crimes and tried to blame the KLA.
He claimed that Serbian forces covered up the crimes, hiding evidence so that there would be no accountability after NATO arrived in Kosovo. That is, so that there would be no evidence available for the War Crimes Tribunal, reports "Oath for Justice".
Rubin also claimed that the Serbian government was not acting according to what is understood as conventional warfare, but was acting like criminals to hide crimes.
"It's a characteristic that we've seen in Bosnia and again in Kosovo... they've always tried to blame the KLA. So, the Serbian government. That's the way they justified what they were doing by blaming others," he said.
Rubin also mentioned a meeting he had with Jakup Krasniqi in Brussels, where Krasniqi had asked for American military intervention, the arming of the KLA, and the halt to ethnic cleansing by Slobodan Milosevic.
The witness said that Krasniqi's demands were rational at the time, but it was impossible to fulfill them in that period of time.
This concludes Krasniqi's defense questions about the witness and the Prosecution, represented by prosecutor James Pace, will continue with questions.
Prosecutor Pace said he needs 4 hours for his questions.
US Government Representatives Issue Remarks
During Monday's hearing at the Kosovo Specialist Chambers in The Hague, during the testimony of James Rubin, two representatives of the US government, Terra Gerhersanem and Joana Corner, were also present. One of them took the floor, indicating when they should intervene during James Rubin's testimony.
She said they want to make remarks about Rubin and the question asked of him for providing detailed information regarding specific sources and conclusions drawn by people within the US government and in particular those in intelligence, reports "Oath for Justice".
"A brief intervention on behalf of the United States, as you have probably seen in the testimony this morning, we intend not to intervene here, our presence not to interrupt the hearing except in cases where it is necessary. In doing so, we are assisted by documents that Mr. Rubin has used and to which he has referred, both public and internal documents that have been declassified. We wanted to make a brief remark regarding Mr. Rubin and the question that was asked of him to provide more detailed information regarding specific sources and conclusions by others within the US Government, in particular intelligence. In these cases, we need to intervene. We wanted to make this clear," she said.
James Rubin: We have found no evidence regarding the allegations of murder by Thaçi and Krasniqi
James Rubin, during his testimony in The Hague, said that there was no data or evidence linking Hashim Thaçi and Jakup Krasniqi to murders and executions.
James Rubin also said that even when he talked to his friends who worked in intelligence agencies, they did not give him such information, reports "Oath for Justice".
"We have not found any data, any evidence, any information that would connect such allegations of such executions and murders with such leaders, neither with Mr. Krasniqi nor with Mr. Thaçi. About 25 years since I left the Government, I have asked everyone who had information regarding this allegation and not only in the 2000s, but also decades later, my friends who had intelligence information when they worked for a while, have not given me information that would connect these allegations with any of the KLA leaders," he said.
Rubin said that the level of disinformation in the Balkans has been very high, mainly influenced by Russia and China for certain purposes.
The witness was also asked about the "Panda" case in Peja, which he said he did not specifically remember, but similar incidents have occurred.
Rubin: Until NATO's intervention, we never believed that the KLA had the structure we thought it had
James Rubin, during his testimony in The Hague, said that until NATO's intervention, they never believed that the KLA had the structure they thought it had.
"Until NATO's intervention in Kosovo, we never believed that the KLA had a structure that we thought was a well-organized military structure," Rubin said, reports "Oath for Justice."
Rubin said that he did not receive information from the GDOM mission in Kosovo regarding the structure of the KLA and that they were focused on the movements of Serbian forces and the actions of the KLA.
With that, Kadri Veseli's defense ended the questions, and Jakup Krasniqi's defense continued, through attorney Shyamala Alagendra, since Rexhep Selim's defense had no questions.
Rubin said that in the contact group there was minimal contact with Jakup Krasniqi and that the point of contact for the leadership of the Kosovo Albanians was Hashim Thaçi.
He said that the majority of the delegation members were in favor of signing the agreement. He also agreed that consultations should be held with the area commanders.
For some of the questions, Alagendra requested a private session which was approved by the panel.
In this session, James Rubin claimed that Ramë Buja, Sokol Bashota, and Jakup Krasniqi were described as moderates within the KLA.
"We wanted to be on the side of the good guys, these were powerless people and victims. They wouldn't be like that if they committed war crimes."
Witness James Rubin, speaking about the American CIA's relations with members of the KLA, said that they wanted to be on the side of the 'angels' or good people, as these people were powerless and victims.
The witness said he understood that in 1998 the CIA had contacts with Ramush Haradinaj, reports "Oath for Justice".
"I didn't learn about the CIA with Haradinaj. I learned this in '99, but at that time I learned that this had also happened in '98. I learned in '99 when I went to Kosovo and met the CIA chief and all the CIA employees, then I learned about their relationship with Haradinaj and I know that they had been in contact with each other for years. I must say here that the CIA officers who knew the Clinton Administration said that there were two important aspects for us; Islamism and war crimes. These were the priorities of the Clinton administration," he said.
Then, by Kadri Veseli's lawyer, Rodney Dixon, the witness was asked if it was true that they could not be partners with any organization if that organization was involved in terrorist activities or war crimes.
"After Bosnia, where we thought we stopped a war and helped create a tolerant and non-chaotic society, we saw a new situation in Kosovo and we wanted to make sure we were on the side of the angels, on the side of the good. We didn't want them to be victims. They wouldn't be victims if they committed war crimes, nor would they be victims if they had an extremist-Islamist approach. We wanted to be on the side of the victims and if something came out differently, that would go against everything we believed in," he said.
He said they wouldn't want to spend millions of dollars on people who didn't express tolerance, at least publicly.
"These were people without power, they were victims. We met with them while they were victims of an oppressor and on the opposing side of a power in Kosovo," said Rubin, saying that they tried to prevent them from following the actions of the oppressor either.
James Rubin said he does not remember Albright telling Thaçi that he would be held criminally responsible for crimes committed in Kosovo after the KFOR intervention.
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Rubin: There were fabricated accusations that attempted to damage our relationship with the people of Kosovo
James Rubin, in his capacity as a witness in the trial of former leaders of the Kosovo Liberation Army, Hashim Thaçi, Kadri Veseli, Rexhep Selimi and Jakup Krasnqi in The Hague, said that he has repeatedly heard accusations of murder, terrorism and similar things during the war.
According to him, he considers this normal since they have already saved many people from the massacre and an attempt was being made to harm the relationship between the United States of America and the people of Kosovo, reports "Oath for Justice".
"We had helped the Kosovo Albanians, they were very grateful that we had saved their lives. Their leaders were also grateful and cautious with the statements and requests that came from the US presidency, including their representatives, including me. I knew that we had a lot of influence over them. So we thought it was normal that on the issue of terrorism we would hear from time to time stories of Islamic fundamentalists trying to penetrate the Balkans and we would address them on this topic. We understood that they were mostly fabricated and aimed at influencing our support. We simply helped people not to be massacred and these accusations tended to damage this relationship of ours," he said.
Rubin said that from the first time to the last time, he was given the impression that for Thaçi, America was a symbol and wanted its support.
Otherwise, after the conclusion of questions from Thaçi's defense, Kadri Veseli's defense, represented by attorney Rodney Dixon, continues with questions.
Rubin on the KLA: There were no organized units for anyone to have the authority to dictate
Former US Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin, during his testimony in The Hague, said that they did not think or believe that there was a system in the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) that functioned properly in the structure. According to him, there was no organized unit that anyone was in charge of or had the authority to do anything.
According to lawyer Luka Misetic, that Thaçi did not control the KLA is an assessment that has been verified and confirmed by numerous agencies such as the Pentagon, intelligence agencies, and which Biden had also said as a senator in the Senate.
James Rubin was asked whether he was in line with the assessment given by the US Government at the time.
"This was consistent because both statements reflect the fact that Hashim Thaçi was not in control, that we did not think and believe that there was a controlled system that would be called a system that functioned in a properly structured manner of the KLA. There was no organized unit that could be called such that someone was in charge and had the authority or information and ability to dictate or to know what was happening. Specifically, Hashim Thaçi was not even in charge of this organization. In charge was General Çeku and Senator Biden should have known about Mr. Çeku," said James Rubin.
Rubin: Before Rambouillet, no US official knew Thaçi
Former US diplomat James Rubin, during his testimony in the case of former KLA leaders, said that he did not know former Kosovo President Hashim Thaçi before he went to Rambouillet. He expressed his belief that other US executive officials did not know him before the start of the negotiations in Rambouillet either.
He said that at the first meeting, Thaçi recognized him because he was a spokesperson for the State Department and often appeared on television.
"I remember the first meeting, which I think is the one you just mentioned (in February 1999) that was recorded on cable, and I remember that he recognized me immediately through television because I was a spokesperson for the State Department and I appeared on television often - mainly for those who were interested in what was happening in the former Yugoslavia. So, he recognized me. And in those days when you recognized someone, they would move, express themselves physically, shake hands or give physical signs, and Mrs. Albright noticed that and he did, so he recognized me. She was very good at human relations and she immediately said to me: Jamie, talk to him, get to know him!", Rubin declared.
He pointed out that former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright told him to come out and get to know her.
"Because I didn't know her, nobody really knew her in the United States Government. At least I didn't. So we wanted to know more about who the leader of the delegation was because we wanted to go in favor of the peace agreement. So she said to me, get to know her, go out with her, help her come to the right decision. And so I did for those, I think, two weeks. I tried to hang out with her, spend time with her," Rubin said.
Rubin is among the witnesses called by Thaçi's defense.
Rubin on the KLA: There were no organized units for anyone to have the authority to dictate
Former US Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin, during his testimony in The Hague, said that they did not think or believe that there was a system in the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) that functioned properly in the structure. According to him, there was no organized unit that anyone was in charge of or had the authority to do anything.
According to lawyer Luka Misetic, that Thaçi did not control the KLA is an assessment that has been verified and confirmed by numerous agencies such as the Pentagon, intelligence agencies, and which Biden had also said as a senator in the Senate.
James Rubin was asked whether he was in line with the assessment given by the US Government at the time.
"This was consistent because both statements reflect the fact that Hashim Thaçi was not in control, that we did not think and believe that there was a controlled system that would be called a system that functioned in a properly structured manner of the KLA. There was no organized unit that could be called such that someone was in charge and had the authority or information and ability to dictate or to know what was happening. Specifically, Hashim Thaçi was not even in charge of this organization. In charge was General Çeku and Senator Biden should have known about Mr. Çeku," said James Rubin.
Rubin: Thaçi had no authority or opportunity to dictate anything
Hashim Thaçi had neither the authority nor the opportunity to dictate anything, stated in his testimony James Rubin, who was the US Assistant Secretary of State during the war in Kosovo.
Rubin said that he did not see Hashim Thaçi as a main factor in Rambouillet, but as reflecting the positions of the Albanian delegation.
According to him, Thaçi was unable to make decisions without consulting others.
"He was a person who was assigned the task of communicating with us by the Kosovar leadership as it was at the time. We did not understand well how the leadership structure worked, but we were clear that he had no authority or ability to dictate anything, but simply reflected the decisions that were made by that office somewhere hidden, that office of the Albanian leadership that made decisions in a group and that were not always present, so he had to get permission from them. He did not have the ability himself. He was not able to dictate rules and conditions. So when we wanted to do something very important, he had to communicate with other people to give approval," said Rubin.
The former American diplomat stated before the Special Court that in order to reach a peace agreement, the military factor had to be reconciled, which is why Thaçi headed the delegation in Rambouillet.
Rubin said that he saw it himself in meetings with KLA commanders, that it was not Thaçi who ordered others, but the commanders who told Thaçi what to do.
"In Rambouillet, Thaçi expressed concern that he did not have authorization to sign on behalf of the KLA"
In his brief presentation to James Rubin, who was the US Assistant Secretary of State during the war in Kosovo, the lead lawyer for former President Hashim Thaçi, Lluka Mishetić, emphasized that the witness was a senior envoy of Secretary of State Madeline Albright and was involved in Rambouillet with Kosovo Albanian representatives and in the demobilization of the KLA.
Mishetic said that the witness, Rubin, previously indicated in his testimony before the defense that in Rambouillet, Thaçi told him that he was concerned that he did not have the necessary authorization to give his signature on behalf of the Kosovo Liberation Army.
Rubin is testifying in the case of former President Hashim Thaçi and others at the Special Court in The Hague.
He is among the witnesses called by the defense.
Rubin begins testimony, two State Department officials present
James Rubin, who served as US Assistant Secretary of State during the Kosovo war, is testifying in the case of former President Hashim Thaçi and others at the Special Court in The Hague.
Rubin has begun his testimony, with two US State Department officials present in the courtroom.
Rubin's testimony is expected to last two to three days.
Thaçi's lawyer: Today we will have a chance to tell the truth
Photo: KSP
Former President Hashim Thaçi's lawyer, Pierre Richard Prosper, stated that today "we will have a chance to tell the truth about what really happened in Kosovo in 1999."
He made these statements before the start of the hearing of the first defense witness, James Rubin, who was the US Assistant Secretary of State during the Kosovo war. He will present his testimony in defense of former Kosovo President Hashim Thaçi.
"The President thanks everyone for their support in this process. We are excited about today because it will give us an opportunity to come back to reality, we will have a chance to re-examine the truth of what really happened in Kosovo in 1999. It will be the beginning of a process where you can see new evidence that will show that the president is not responsible for the accusations that have been made against him, and I hope that you can be present and report fairly on what will happen here today," he said.
Thaçi's defense did not provide details about the testimony, except to add that "if the Specialist Chambers hear the truth, then we will have the opportunity for a fair decision."
"I don't want to give details about the testimony, but again, this is our opportunity to hear the truth of what happened and understand the roles and responsibilities are... I hope [for a decision]. If the Chambers hear the truth, then we will have an opportunity for a fair decision and one that shows that our client is innocent," he added to the media.
Today, the first defense witness will be heard at the Kosovo Specialist Chambers.
James Rubin, who was the US Assistant Secretary of State during the war in Kosovo, will present his testimony in defense of former Kosovo President Hashim Thaçi.
This is the first witness for Thaçi's defense, which has planned to bring about 11 witnesses to the courtroom. The trial will then continue with witnesses called by the defense of the former speaker of the Kosovo Assembly, Jakup Krasniqi./KSP
Kosovo Ambassador to the Netherlands: Every session is monitored with the utmost care
Kosovo's Ambassador to the Netherlands, Dren Doli, stated that all court hearings have been monitored by the embassy, as he said, with the utmost care.
This is what he said to the media, as he arrived at the Specialist Chambers in The Hague.
"We follow it every time, either online or in person. There is never a single session that is not monitored by the embassy with the utmost care," he told the media.
On Sunday, around 10 Albanians held a massive protest in The Hague, the Dutch city where the Special Court is headquartered.
Doli said that yesterday's protest sent the right message, while being asked why the police were present near the embassy yesterday.
"I don't know, maybe they had some information, absolutely not, we never ask for protection from the people of Kosovo, that is the embassy of Kosovo, the home of Kosovars," he added.
James Rubin, who was the US Assistant Secretary of State during the Kosovo war, is expected to begin his testimony today in defense of former Kosovo President Hashim Thaçi. /KSP